Born Abroad.....

[cattie41]

No, unfortunately it has taken me so long to get back in here.....

Oooops! I just remembered: (this is probably the wrong thread noo).

If a child is born in another country from Scottish parents, is it possible for that child to have a Scottish Birth Certificate?

OK, Andy, Mary and Ina, so I'm still trying to trace my grandpa, John Miller... so don't give me a hard time.

JOHN MILLER was born 1883 - died 1957
His parents were WILLIAM MCNAIR MILLER and MARGARET EADIE ERSKINE.

Now, the story goes that he was born in New York in 1883 (have no idea where in NY and have tried locating BC's everywhere I can think of) and can't find any records. They were back in Larkhall, Scotland in 1896 where the mother died after a 3 year illness (John being 13). The strange thing here is I don't show John's father (William) dying until 1931 (73 yrs old), but yet John was found at age 13 living with a family in Larkhall named John & Jeanie Frame. If his father was still alive, I wonder why he was living with the Frame family?

I have John's MC and DC, but I can't trace a BC for him. Any ideas would be very welcome! (The menfolk were all miners).

(David/Ina, if this is posted on the wrong thread, please redirect).

[DavidWW]

No, unfortunately it has taken me so long to get back in here.....

Oooops! I just remembered: (this is probably the wrong thread noo).

If a child is born in another country from Scottish parents, is it possible for that child to have a Scottish Birth Certificate?

........snipped ..................

Yes, but only if the relevant information was supplied to the British consul (which cost serious money), and then transferred from GRO in London to GROS in Edinburgh.

David

[DavidWW]

.....snipped.........JOHN MILLER was born 1883 - died 1957
His parents were WILLIAM MCNAIR MILLER and MARGARET EADIE ERSKINE.

Now, the story goes that he was born in New York in 1883 (have no idea where in NY and have tried locating BC's everywhere I can think of) and can't find any records. They were back in Larkhall, Scotland in 1896 where the mother died after a 3 year illness (John being 13). The strange thing here is I don't show John's father (William) dying until 1931 (73 yrs old), but yet John was found at age 13 living with a family in Larkhall named John & Jeanie Frame. If his father was still alive, I wonder why he was living with the Frame family?

I have John's MC and DC, but I can't trace a BC for him. Any ideas would be very welcome! (The menfolk were all miners).

And that's exactly where John is to be found in the 1901 census, now aged 18, and shown as born "America, [British?] Subject, Pennsyl".

"Pennsyl" is partly obscured by a clerk's tick mark, but I'm reasonably sure about it, - and it was/is very much coal mining country ............ his father was a miner ............

But I've viewed this census image before so is there another thread where this was discussed ??................

David

[cattie41]

David, that is exactly what I wanted to hear - thank you so much! So, he was born in Pennsylvania eh? So, why didn't they find him on my search, I ask? Pennsylvania said they had no record.

Thanks, David, I will definitely pursue this.

You don't know how desperate I am getting here in getting my grandpa's BC. I knew this man personally (I used to sit on his bloomin knee and listen to his tales... wish I had had the insight to be more intelligent and pay more attention) and he insisted he was born in New York.

So, is it possible he was born in New York to Scottish parents and just had an American citizenship?

[cattie41]

David... I have a BIG question... How could he be born an "America, British Subject, Pennsyl"???? If he was born in America, wouldn't that make him an AMERICAN subject?

Och, I'm going to have to have a look at the 1901 Census... Nae doobt aboot it! Thanks for your help pal!

[StewL]

Hello Cattie41

It is more than possible that he is an American citizen if he was born there, regardless of the nationality of his parents. As he would have been registered in the U.S..
I am sure that is an automatic thing in most countires except Japan
I know of a number of people in Australia who are citizens even though their parents were born overseas and werent citizens themselves at the time of the child's birth.
If parents were citizens of U.S. at time of his birth then he automatically would be one too. BUT if they are adults and the parents take out citizenship and they havent, then they have to apply in their own right.

Regarding Japan A few years ago an Australian journalist and his wife decided they wanted their children raised and educated in Aust. As they were trying to leave the country the immigration officials stopped them and asked where they got the children from as they werent on their entry documents (They had lived and worked in Japan for a few years) Luckily they had thought to put the childrens registration documents with their travel documents for safe-keeping They had to register their children at the Aust Embassy when they were born as they could not register their children in the Japanese registry office.

Of course this is also based on an assumption that the U.S. has same rules as a number of other countries!!

[Thrall]

Hi Cattie41,

I can confirm that my paternal gr.grandfather John Maclean was born in Boston 1842, a few months after his Scottish parents emigrated to America. The 1871 census for Barony states "Where born: United States Boston, naturalized British Subject", so he was a US citizen once. (and my departed father, who had no love for things American, and presumably did not know this, if keeping an eye on things must be turning in his gra..... ). I spent an afternoon at Kew going through all the UK naturalisations for the 19th. century, which are fortunately indexed in alphabetical order, but no joy. Those on the desk seemed to think he just omitted to get himself naturalised, but claimed it all the same. He did however emigrate to Argentina in 1880-1, so presumably had to have obtained a passport even in those days. Are there records of passport applications somewhere? Perhaps it was easy to get a BC for births before 1855, or perhaps no documents were needed. David must know!

Good hunting,

Thrall

[cattie41]

Thanks StewL - that was very informative. However, I have checked the US and the Scottish sites with no confirmation that my grandpa was ever born. I have been seeking his BC for several years now to no avail. I seriously need HELP!

[cattie41]

Thrall: That is very interesting. The only "confirmation" I have that my grandpa was born in New York was his verbal confirmation. (He always bragged that he was the only American in the family), but I have been checking both New York (and surrounding areas) and Scotland (Larkhall) but have found nothing regarding his birth. He had to have been born because I was at his blessed funeral! Can you see how frustrated I am getting here? ha ha ha

[Thrall]

Hi again Cattie41,

I tried for several months to find John McLean my gr.granfather´s birth in Boston US, then bought access to US census too, but never found a soul - father, mother or son in the US, nor his brother/cousin? James Mclean with wife Catherine Galbraith who married her, as John had Christian Munro at the same church, same time, in Glasgow in October 1841 and sailed with the ship "Roscoe" from Liverpool a month later. Its like they disappeared off the face of the earth, until lo and behold 1871 John appears as engine fitter in Glasgow. Interestingly, John´s mother changed name in mid Atlantic and was thereafter Christina, and died in Blythswood 1878. Where they all were from 1842 (inUS?) til UK 1871census is a mystery, with only John present and correct , having got married, with wife Elizabeth Crawford bearing my granny a week later. (after the census, not wedding!)

A slightly tortured story. I could elaborate............

God hunting, Glenmorangie taking a bashing tonight.

Thrall