Census 1841 - Kerr Family

[AndrewP]

Hopefully Andrew won't mind if I try answer your question.

I don't mind at all.

You can do a 'parent search' at http://www.familysearch.org/eng/Search/ ... search.asp by inserting the father and mother's names in the appropriate boxes and nothing else. This brings up the children registered to that couple before 1875 - the original records can be viewed at SP. You can give it a try with Agnes and her spouse.
If they were born before 1855 and baptised in an established church then it's usually an index of christening records which can also be viewed at SP.

One detail that Annette missed: as well as the parents' names, you have to put in the region (in this case, 'British Isles'). If you choose to, you can narrow down the results further by specifying a country and a county. However, if a child was born away from the area you expected to find them, you run the risk of not getting that information.

The online IGI gives a number of submitted entries, as well as the extracted ones that I quoted. One name that comes up in the submissions is David. Both submissions for David give the same family group, but with Agnes omitted and David inserted. His brith is given as 20-Mar-1838 (2½ weeks after the date given for Agnes). As Agnes appears on the extracted records and at least the censuses of 1841 and 1851, none of which show David, she is far more believable to have existed than David. If there was a David, was he born in the gap between Charles (1839) and James (1843)? Only a guess, for which I can see no record of birth or burial in the OPRs.

All the best,

Andrew

[nelmit]

Hi Alan,

Was Agnes married to John Angus?

If so there is a wee snippet in the Dundee Courier regarding their Shebeen. I've failed miserably in my attempt to upload the article so hopefully you have access from home with your library card or some kind soul will upload it for me.

Regards,
Annette

[Aliballibee]

Hi Alan,

Was Agnes married to John Angus?

If so there is a wee snippet in the Dundee Courier regarding their Shebeen. I've failed miserably in my attempt to upload the article so hopefully you have access from home with your library card or some kind soul will upload it for me.

Regards,
Annette

Hi Annette

She was indeed - they are they first entries, along with their children, in our family bible. I'm amazed at how people are able to locate these articles - I wouldn't know where to look!

With regard to the famly search website I decided on an easier trial run and looked for my father and mother - neither appeared. I've never used family search before so it's probably me but are the records on there pretty comprehensive? My parents are easily located on SP - to be expected.

Kind regards

Alan

[Jean Jeanie]

Hi Alan

Your own parents births are too recent to show on family search. The records only go up to around 1875.

Try searching for the children of Agnes Kerr and John Angus.You will find three births there.

Regards
Jean

[Aliballibee]

Hi Alan

Your own parents births are too recent to show on family search. The records only go up to around 1875.

Try searching for the children of Agnes Kerr and John Angus.You will find three births there.

Regards
Jean

Hi Jean

Many thanks for your information.

If I carried out the search correctly I matched 3 and found the following:

International Genealogical Index - British Isles
76. ISABEL MATTHEW ANGUS - International Genealogical Index / BI
Gender: Female Birth: 22 NOV 1871 Forfar, Angus, Scotland

77. MARY ADAMSON ANGUS - International Genealogical Index / BI
Gender: Female Birth: 31 MAY 1869 Forfar, Angus, Scotland

78. MARGARET KERR ANGUS - International Genealogical Index / BI
Gender: Female Birth: 25 MAY 1867 Forfar, Angus, Scotland

Matches: International Genealogical Index/British Isles - 3

I'm now curious as to why it doesn't list the other two children - James (1862) and Christina (1875 - too late?).

I'm probably doing this all too quickly and need to take a breath - currently drawing up our ever increasing family circle on a drawing sheet!

Kind regards

Alan

[Jean Jeanie]

Hi Alan

Births/Baptisms only show up if the parents had the children baptised. Sometimes the parents didn't bother..............especially if money was tight!

You obviously did the search corectly as that's the births I found.

Regards
Jean

[SarahND]

I'm now curious as to why it doesn't list the other two children - James (1862) and Christina (1875 - too late?).

There is a James Kerr born 10 Feb 1862 in Forfar, mother Agnes Kerr. It looks as though his birth pre-dated the wedding, which took place on 4 Dec 1863 in Forfar.

All the best,
Sarah

[Currie]

Hello Alan,

The middle name site that the other Alan mentioned earlier is here. http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.anc ... ughwallis/

Here’s the Shebeen article that Annette found and the image in the gallery. The Dundee Courier & Argus, Wednesday, November 30, 1870. http://www.talkingscot.com/gallery/disp ... ssageBlock

FORFAR.
BURGH COURT—RAID UPON THE “SHEBEENS.”
At the Burgh Court on Monday—Bailie Thornton presiding—John Angus and Agnes Kerr or Angus, his wife, residing in Dundee Loan, Forfar, were found guilty of selling spirits and other excisable liquors without a license. This case created some interest, and a large number of spectators were present during the hearing. The Fiscal withdrew the case against John Angus in consequence of a long and continued illness, but moved for sentence against his wife. The sentence of the Court was a fine of ₤7 with 14s. expenses, with the alternative of six weeks imprisonment. She went to prison. At the Police Court a number of persons found in the shebeen were fined in small amounts.

And it looks like John Angus had died by 1888 and that the sister Elizabeth was the one who married Mr. Lamond. The Dundee Courier & Argus, Thursday, May 31, 1888. http://www.talkingscot.com/gallery/disp ... ssageBlock

A CONFIRMED PEACE-BREAKER—Before Bailie M’Lean in the Police Court yesterday, James Lamond, labourer, West High Street, was charged with having on Tuesday night created a disturbance at the door of the dwellinghousc in West High Street occupied by Agnes Kerr or Angus, by knocking loudly at the door, and cursing and swearing at Mrs Angus. He pleaded guilty, and admitted eight previous convictions against him. It was explained that Mrs Angus was a sister-in-law of accused, and that he had gone to her house in quest of his wife, who had left him. He made a practice of going there to inquire for her, and on each occasion he used very bad language towards his sister-in-law. Sentence— ₤1 of a fine, or fourteen days' imprisonment.

All the best,
Alan

[Aliballibee]

Hello Alan,

The middle name site that the other Alan mentioned earlier is here. http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.anc ... ughwallis/

Here’s the Shebeen article that Annette found and the image in the gallery. The Dundee Courier & Argus, Wednesday, November 30, 1870. http://www.talkingscot.com/gallery/disp ... ssageBlock

FORFAR.
BURGH COURT—RAID UPON THE “SHEBEENS.”
At the Burgh Court on Monday—Bailie Thornton presiding—John Angus and Agnes Kerr or Angus, his wife, residing in Dundee Loan, Forfar, were found guilty of selling spirits and other excisable liquors without a license. This case created some interest, and a large number of spectators were present during the hearing. The Fiscal withdrew the case against John Angus in consequence of a long and continued illness, but moved for sentence against his wife. The sentence of the Court was a fine of ₤7 with 14s. expenses, with the alternative of six weeks imprisonment. She went to prison. At the Police Court a number of persons found in the shebeen were fined in small amounts.

And it looks like John Angus had died by 1888 and that the sister Elizabeth was the one who married Mr. Lamond. The Dundee Courier & Argus, Thursday, May 31, 1888. http://www.talkingscot.com/gallery/disp ... ssageBlock

A CONFIRMED PEACE-BREAKER—Before Bailie M’Lean in the Police Court yesterday, James Lamond, labourer, West High Street, was charged with having on Tuesday night created a disturbance at the door of the dwellinghousc in West High Street occupied by Agnes Kerr or Angus, by knocking loudly at the door, and cursing and swearing at Mrs Angus. He pleaded guilty, and admitted eight previous convictions against him. It was explained that Mrs Angus was a sister-in-law of accused, and that he had gone to her house in quest of his wife, who had left him. He made a practice of going there to inquire for her, and on each occasion he used very bad language towards his sister-in-law. Sentence— ₤1 of a fine, or fourteen days' imprisonment.

All the best,
Alan

Hi Alan

Thanks for the details - a brilliant piece of family history.

Kind regards

Alan

[Aliballibee]

I'm now curious as to why it doesn't list the other two children - James (1862) and Christina (1875 - too late?).

There is a James Kerr born 10 Feb 1862 in Forfar, mother Agnes Kerr. It looks as though his birth pre-dated the wedding, which took place on 4 Dec 1863 in Forfar.

All the best,
Sarah

Hi Sarah

I hadn't checked for wedding dates yet - that would probably explain that one missing!

Many thanks

Alan