Grandmother's Birth Certificate

Maz · Post by **Maz** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 10:28 am

My grandmother Annie Hadden was born in Dundee on 10 August 1884 (according to her). This is noted on her Australian marriage and death certificates and by my aunt who is still alive. She was the daughter of Alexander Hadden and Mary Lamb (again according to her). My aunt talks about these people being her grandparents. Annie's brother also came to Australia and he talked about the same people being his parents

My problem now is that in wanting to have the proper evidence of her birth I decided to get Annie's birth certificate from SP and what a surprise there is no Annie Hadden born anywhere in Scotland in 1884. Tried a wider search 1880 to 1890 which threw up a few but none of these are born in Dundee.

Unfortunately my grandmother also told quite a few "untruthful stories" about her life in Scotland to her children.

My question after this long story is "Where do I go from here?'. Instead of confirming something I now have created another mystery.

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 10:57 am

Hi Maz
Have you tired a search for them in the 1891 census if they were still in Scotland at that date, given you know her first name and her brother's name? Can you share his name with us?

Was an occupation ever given for her father?

Best wishes
Lesley

nelmit · Post by **nelmit** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 11:35 am

Alexander Hadden and Mary Lamb married in 1893 - so 9 years after Ann was born.

A look at their marriage entry on SP should show if Mary had been married before. Otherwise perhaps you should be looking for the the birth of Ann Lamb.

Regards,
Annette

Post by **AndrewP** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 11:36 am

Hi Maz,

You may need to start with a look on ScotlandsPeople for her parents' marriage. It is there in Cookney, Kincardineshire, 40 or so miles north-ish of Dundee, in 1893.

The 1901 census entry for her in Dundee (St Andrew district) shows that she was born well before her parents' marriage.

She has two birth certificates - one at the place of birth (Aberdeen) and the other at the place of residence (Cookney, Kincardineshire). Do a search for Ann Hadden Lamb and you will find her. The one at Cookney explains that it is a transcription of the Aberdeen certificate. Your grandmother was right about her date of birth.

She can be found in the 1891 census as Ann H Lamb, staying with her uncle and aunt, John and Robina Craig, in Dunottar, Kincardineshire.

All the best,

AndrewP

Snap, Annette

Maz · Post by **Maz** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 12:59 pm

Thanks Lesley, Andrew and Annette for your help.

I couldn't find her in 1891 but did find her in 1901 with her brothers Albert (born 1895) and John (born 1900) but wondered if the date of birth on the census was a misprint.

Is it usual to have both surnames on a birth certificate and also to have two certificates?

Funny thing was that Annie had a child before she was married (but she married a few months after the birth) and my aunt tells me that Annie's parents disowned her when she fell pregnant.

This now gives me more mysteries - what happened in the nine years before they married? Were there any other children born between Annie and her brother Albert? (I did wonder about such a large age gap) You think you have knocked down one brickwall only to find another one behind it!

Post by **AndrewP** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 1:19 pm

Maz wrote:I couldn't find her in 1891

Look up Ann H Lamb, age 6 and you will find her. Incidentally the Craig family's neighbours were Haddens. That may be more than co-incidence.

Maz wrote:Is it usual to have both surnames on a birth certificate

It was not that Hadden was listed as a second surname, but as a middle name (or second given name). It was quite common for an illegitimate child to be given the mother's surname as the surname and the father's surname as a middle name. If the parents subsequently married, the father's surname was usually taken as the child's surname. The middle name was either dropped or replaced by the mother's maiden surname.

Maz wrote:and also to have two certificates?

That was fairly common until the 1930s(?) if the child was born away from the mother's normal place of residence. The birth was registered in the area where the birth took place, then this information was transcribed onto another certificate in the area of normal residence.

It was quite common for the first child of a family to be born at the mother's mother's home. Was the Aberdeen address the mother's mother's home?

Maz wrote:This now gives me more mysteries - what happened in the nine years before they married? Were there any other children born between Annie and her brother Albert? (I did wonder about such a large age gap) You think you have knocked down one brickwall only to find another one behind it!

You probably need to find Mary Lamb on the 1891 census and see if she has any children with her. We have already seen that your grandmother was not with her mother at the time of that census. As she is not listed as a visitor, the implication is that she was living with her aunt and uncle and their family.

All the best,

AndrewP

Maz · Post by **Maz** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 1:37 pm

Thanks Andrew for those clarifications.

As far as I am aware Annie's maternal grandmother died sometime around 1880 after the birth of her son. In the 1881 census her grandfather is listed as living at 6 Newtonhill, Skateraw with Mary and a younger brother George.

As well when Mary died in 1941 she was living at Newtonhill so it looks as though this was the area where the Lamb family lived for quite a few years.

But Aberdeen does crop up as in 1894 there was a small article in the Aberdeen Weekly about a family dispute but it was listed under the district of Stonehaven. Court action was taken by Mary's father over the cost of burying his mother-in-law and paying for her funeral against her estate. Also according to this article Alexander and Mary Hadden also tried to get some money but the magistrate was concerned about the mother-in-law's state of mind at the time of her death (one big happy family it seems)

Robina Craig was previously Robina Hadden, Alexander's sister so it seems she lived with her father's family not her mother's.

Post by **AndrewP** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 1:41 pm

Hi Maz,

Mary Lamb was at her parent's home in Cookney in the 1891 census.

Alexander Hadden seems to be elusive in the 1891 census searches.

Annie's <strike>maternal</strike> paternal grandmother's death in the 1880s (later than the census) is easily found on ScotlandsPeople if you search for Jane Hadden with other surname Smart. Interesting cause of death - I'll let you find that one.

All the best,

AndrewP

Edit: correction to grandmother - paternal, not maternal.

Maz · Post by **Maz** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 1:49 pm

My aunt says that her mother often spoke about her father going to San Francisco to buy land - maybe he went there around 1891. Will have to investigate that one.

This is one of the reasons I love genealogy - trying to trace the paths of your family, where they were and why they were there. You feel that you really know the people when you can piece together information.

Thanks again Andrew

nelmit · Post by **nelmit** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 2:02 pm

AndrewP wrote:Hi Maz,

Mary Lamb was at her parent's home in Cookney in the 1891 census.

Alexander Hadden seems to be elusive in the 1891 census searches.

Annie's maternal grandmother's death in the 1880s (later than the census) is easily found on ScotlandsPeople if you search for Jane Hadden with other surname Smart. Interesting cause of death - I'll let you find that one.

All the best,

AndrewP

I think Mary's mother was Ann Keith who died in 1875.

George is with Mary and wee George in 1881 and Ann and Mary in 1871.

Regards,
Annette