at a loss -- no facts to backup alleged data!

daj · Post by **daj** » Sat May 02, 2009 11:43 am

I am having a bit of a dichotomy with this one.....

A year or so ago someone contacted my maternal grandfather to say he was working on his family tree and he said they are related. He was in the USA, my grandfather in Scotland. The chap actually came over to Scotland for a week to see where his ancestors came from. I never got the chance to meet him.

Anyway, fast forward to the last few weeks and I been working on my fathers side of the tree but thought I would incorporate the research the American chap had done. Now call me a cynical but I always check the facts before I add anyone to my tree as I have spent a lot of time validating my facts.

Cutting a long story short, although the chap was the great nephews of my grandfathers (via g/f's sister) he had got the early generations all wrong. I told him the news and he accepted my evidence.

I then looked into this chaps work he had done and here is some detail.

Janet Russell (my g/f sister) married John McAuley 12 Jul 1907.
John's parents are listed as William McAuley & Christina Bolen (married 6 nov 1883).
I have copies of the above two certificates so I know this is correct.

I can not find a birth certificate for John, anywhere in Scotland. John and Janet emigrated to the USA via Canada and I have copied of their children's birth certificates from the USA, again stating that both parents were born in Scotland.

I did a lot of research on the birth of John but hit a dead end and guessed he must have been born outwith Scotland.

I contacted the guy in the USA and told him. He then sent me a 20 page document about his family with very precise details....

John (who married Janet) was born 3 Nov 1884 in Larkhall, Lanarkshire
his siblings....
birth George McAuley, 14 Jan 1890 in Linlithgow
birth Christina Mcauley, about 1885. Death in 1890
birth William Arthur, 15 Nov 1887 in Newarthill

All this apparently happening in Scotland. I am suspicious already as the births are all over Lanarkshire.

I can not find one certificate for any of this. Nor can I find them on a Census. All I can confirm is the marriage of John to Janet in Larkhall and the marriage of John's parents.

It just does not add up. I have asked him where he got all these facts from and await his response. It just does not sit well in my head.

I realise I have already blow away the data on earlier ancestors on his tree, but now I am questioning the facts on a whole branch. I woke up in the middle of the night thinking about this. The chap is 74 years old so I might need to break it to him gently (if I am correct)

I realise there is not really a question here, but if anyone can suggest anything.....

thanks

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Sat May 02, 2009 11:55 am

Hi David

I can not find a birth certificate for John, anywhere in Scotland.

I expect you have thought of this when searching, so it may be redundant, but I have McAuleys in my tree and they turn up with many spelling variations:
McAuley, McAulay (both spellings in Scotland - mostly with "ay" early on, then changing to "ey" and staying that way across the whole extended family I know of from around the early 1900s onwards ), McCauley (in Ireland), McAlley, McAlly, McCally (older parish records) etc.
I usually use M*ca*l*y when searching on SP as that covers the Mac/Mc variation too. There are 11 such Johns born in Lanarkshire in 1884, but if the parents were Irish in origin, it is quite possible that John may have been born in Ireland.

With my McCauleys/McAulays/McAuleys the origin is Ireland with family members coming to Scotland from the late 1860s onwards as far as I've found - I'd not be at all surprised if yours were from there too. Do you have a copy of that 12 Jul 1907 marriage you could upload to the gallery, and is it a RC church?

John's parents are listed as William McAuley & Christina Bolen (married 6 nov 1883).

Did the date of marriage for William & Christina come from your contact or did that marriage happen in Scotland?

Best wishes
Lesley

daj · Post by **daj** » Sat May 02, 2009 12:05 pm

Hi Lesely

I've tried every combination of McAuley I can think of

Here is the 1907 marriage certificate of Janet and John.
http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/33488/1907-M1.tif
(The correction of the register is simply to note her surname was Russell as the Registrar wrote it as Kinnell)

Here is the 1883 marriage certificate of William and Christina. I did not rely on my contact for that, I located it myself as it happened in Scotland (Renfrew)
http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/33488/1883-M1.tif

Just for completeness, here is the birth of John and Janets child in the USA. Stating John and Janet were from Scotland
[Link removed by a moderator as birth is too recent to post]

Thanks for reading my rambling

daj · Post by **daj** » Sat May 02, 2009 12:25 pm

LesleyB wrote: I usually use M*ca*l*y when searching on SP as that covers the Mac/Mc variation too. There are 11 such Johns born in Lanarkshire in 1884

These were my results
http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/33488/SPSearch1884.pdf

I've downloaded each of them and none are the correct parents. PS, if any are of use to you, let me know

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Sat May 02, 2009 12:32 pm

Hi David
In 1907 at the time of his marriage John states he is 21...which may or may not be correct, but that would make his birth year in the region of 1886 (though best to allow a year or so each side, as you do not know a. if he is telling the truth, or b. what time of year he was born)

It could cost a bit to look at all the likely births, so if you are heading for Park Circus at some point, it might be one to put down on your list for there. I'm not seeing any candidate in Larkhall on SP for the years 1884-7, but of course there are several in the whole of Lanarkshire

And thanks for the thought on the Johns, but I've no Johns around in Scotland at that period.

Best wishes
Lesley

daj · Post by **daj** » Sat May 02, 2009 12:42 pm

thanks -- it's very suspicious I think -- none of his siblings appear either.

Anyway, if the America guy comes back with details on where he got his facts I will let you know. It's the fact he is very precise that amazes me. I only had the birth of John at circa 1886 but he gave an exact date of birth in 1884.

I'm planning a trip to Park Circus next Friday so I can add him to the list

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Sat May 02, 2009 12:46 pm

Looking at the 1891 on SP. there is one John M*ca*l*y, aged 5, with a George aged 1 on the same page , and playing around with the search it seems this person is in Cambuslang. There is also a William aged 3 on that page, but no Chris*(mother).

John was born 3 Nov 1884 in Larkhall, Lanarkshire
his siblings....
birth Christina Mcauley, about 1885. Death in 1890
birth William Arthur, 15 Nov 1887 in Newarthill
birth George McAuley, 14 Jan 1890 in Linlithgow

But could that be them - the ages seem correct for kids?
I've not looked at the page, just fiddled around with the search possibilities.

daj · Post by **daj** » Sat May 02, 2009 1:09 pm

This may well be them. I am told that Christina (wife of William, Mother of John) died in 1890. William remarried a Matilda.

The census record lists William, Matilda, John, William, George

http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/33488/1891-McaulayCensus.tif

I've now also managed to track down the death certificate of Christina, and she did die in 1890.

I will now see if I can find the marriage certificate of William to Matilda to confirm it is the same William.

Gold star to Lesley for finding that one

daj · Post by **daj** » Sat May 02, 2009 1:14 pm

daj wrote: I will now see if I can find the marriage certificate of William to Matilda to confirm it is the same William.

It's the same William

Finally a few facts

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Sat May 02, 2009 1:22 pm

Brilliant!!

It's a good feeling when you get a hold of an elusive branch!