decreee of declaration

[DavidWW]

It may be possible to obtain copies of the various court papers by post from NAS. Email them with the details and ask for an estimate for photocopies.

I'd agree with Anne that it's near certain that there was no divorce procedure involved.

David

[jintymar]

hi David

I have decided to make the trip to Edinburgh and see what I can find out. Have already found by remotely searching the archives the decree of declarator of marriage and for payment of expenses by the first wife but so far no record of the bigamy trial. I have also searched the Scotsman but no articles correspond with the date of the trial. ( 1918 ). I wondered if the fact that the marriage took place during wartime might have made a difference.

Janet

[LesleyB]

Hi Janet
If you are checking for a divorce, as far as I remember the divorce indexes are a card index in drawers at West Register House, Charlotte Square. In the search room upstairs, after the desk, on the LHS !

Have already found by remotely searching the archives the decree of declarator of marriage and for payment of expenses by the first wife

Do phone NAS up in advance to ensure any documents you are hoping to see are available. If they are held at Thomas Thomson House, NAS need 48hrs notice to have them there for you. If you have not been there before, see:
http://talkingscot.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9965

Best wishes
Lesley

[jintymar]

hi Lesley

I will check that, thanks.

Janet

[DavidWW]

hi David

I have decided to make the trip to Edinburgh and see what I can find out. Have already found by remotely searching the archives the decree of declarator of marriage and for payment of expenses by the first wife but so far no record of the bigamy trial. I have also searched the Scotsman but no articles correspond with the date of the trial. ( 1918 ). I wondered if the fact that the marriage took place during wartime might have made a difference.

Janet

Wartime or not shouldn't have made any difference.

What could make a difference is whether the bigamy court action took place in Scotland or elsewhere in the UK, - it would have been a Court of Session matter in Scotland, the Court of Session being the highest civil court (unless a sequence of appeals resulted in the House of Lords at Westminster becoming involved................).
To search the records at Register House, at the eastern end of Princes Street, directly opposite the Balmoral Hotel (The North British Hotel as was) or West Register House, just off the western end of Princes Street in Charlotte Square, you will need to obtain a reader's card, - but this can be done on the day, involving a very short interview and completion of a simple form, as long as you have identification with you........

David

[Fidget]

Hi Jinty,
Find out if his first wife divorced her first husband while you are there!

[DavidWW]

Hi Jinty,
Find out if his first wife divorced her first husband while you are there!

Not so simple, as, see the various previous posts, it may well have been the case that there couldn't have been a divorce until it had been proven that there had been a marriage; and, if there had been such an (irregular) marriage, that's one thing, but if it was contested that there had been such an irregular marriage, then that greatly complicated matters, leading to court actions at the level of the Court of Session.

And if there wasn't agreement that there had been a prefectly legal, irregular marriage, then the matter of the existence and validity of such an alleged marriage would have to have been tested via an action in the Court of Session in Edinburgh.............

David

[jintymar]

Hi David

Don't think she divorced her first husband, cause she stated she was a widow on the marriage certificate. Her husband died in 1920. Her second marriage took place in 1915/16. I will check this though in Edinburgh.

Also according to the army records he was tried and convicted and admonished of bigamy in Glasgow. any idea what court that would be, cause I thought the court of session was in Edinburgh.

Cheers Jinty

[AnneM]

Hi

Important here to get the civil and criminal matters straight. The establishment of whether or not there was a legal first marriage i.e. a decree of declarator had to be dealt with by the Court of Session which as Jinty correctly says sits in Edinburgh. It seems that it is the records of that action that are extant and available at NAS. They might well be quite informative or at least interesting. That is a civil action and must have been brought by his first wife.

Now for the criminal matter. It seems that that was dealt with in Glasgow. Now what I don't know is whether it would have been heard in the High Court sitting in Glasgow or the Sheriff Court. My guess would be the High Court for such a potentially serious matter though I don't know what the respective sentencing powers for these courts were in the early C20. It used to be that the Sheriff Court could only sentence up to 2 years in jail but I have a faint memory that that may have gone up to 5 years recently. Only very serious crimes such as murder and rape can only be heard in the High Court but many other serious offences which carry heavy sentences are also tried there. The alternatives are Sheriff and jury (known as solemn procedure) or Sheriff alone which is known as summary procedure. By the way it is never correct to say the High Court of Glasgow or Aberdeen or Inverness or whatever but the High Court at Glasgow because it is one court which just travels.

However in order for the criminal trial to succeed it would have to have been shown that he was legally married the first time so the civil case must have been dealt with first. Query to myself, if he disputed the existence of the first marriage could a prosecution have succeeded without first a declarator?? I must look that up but I would think that it could.

Clear as mud??

Anne

[DavidWW]

If the Glasgow action was in the High Court (of Justiciary) then there should be a record at NAS in Edinburgh; but it was the Sheriff court then the papers may well have been subjected to that dreaded procedure, - "weeding", - i.e. destroyed, as have been most Sheriff court papers from that era, with the exception of a couple of courts that have been kept as examples.

But, never fear , I'd put considerable money on such a case being reported in the Glasgow newspapers.

David